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Post by dice0hate0me on Feb 8, 2010 4:35:00 GMT
the problem with your themed session is $$$$$$ people wont go and spend a small fortune on models for a weekend, remember the hoby aint cheap and not every one can afford to splash out the cash, i dont think even you can offer that good a discount!!
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primer
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Post by primer on Feb 8, 2010 11:31:54 GMT
How about club open days 2 saturdays a year. Have 3 or 4 intro tables to show any new commers games we do 1 paint area. Advetise as much as the tournys with flyers and posters in librarys and schools and the gw stores,ad in paper 4 weekes running upto event. For members we have to do something that will generate £50 to cover cost Themed games would be fine but in order to cover £50 the saturday price would have to rise to about4-5 pounds to cover cost. Some ideas can be the best in the world but if you cant cover the cost, its not worth it. I think we only have about 25 members in the club,they wont all be there on a saturday so i think increasing the saturday price is a must.If this is done the kids will stop coming and go to the gw store where they can game all day for free. The only way to get saturdays back is to increase membership so you have enough bodys to cover price and make it a must event that you would not want to miss. Getting other tournys on the go wont last as there is already so many tournys you could attend in Scotland and the people who attend these are allready saying they struggle to get time off work or away from family.
I think the key to getting saturdays back is increase the membership on thursday nights and having quality campaigns/events on thursdays so that when you mention to someone there is gaming on saturday they can resist because the thursday night experience is so good they want more.
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primer
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Post by primer on Feb 8, 2010 11:35:35 GMT
with the last post we have to dicide what saturdays are for. Do we want to use it to get people into the club that have never played befor? Do we want screaming kids running about? Do we want to cover the cost? Do we want it to be the same as thursdays? Do we want to make it a special day? Do we want to invite other clubs/modeling companys for events?
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Post by sholto on Feb 8, 2010 14:24:40 GMT
Lots of interesting ideas. My own thoughts:-
The basics. Since a Sat session needs to have a minimum number of people coming to make it financially worthwhile, there needs to be a place for Sat sessions to be posted and for members to sign up. Maybe an email bi-monthly to members telling them about the next all-day Sat session, what games and events are planned and where to sign up to confirm they are coming. If the club gets enough positive responses by a set date, the hall is booked, a confirmation email goes out and the day goes ahead.
No ongoing events. Don't start events that force people to come along to the next Saturday session if they want to keep taking part. Each Sat session must be standalone.
Scaleable events. Whatever you plan should (ideally) be able to accommodate more or less people turning up on the day. Setting up a tournament or a challenge against another club only works if you get the numbers. The best events will be flexible.
Beyond that, here are ideas for what the all-day Sat sessions could include:-
1. Bring & Try. Bring a new game along, or turn up and try a new one.
This would involve some members volunteering to bring their own games along (eg. I don't have many games but I could bring something like Munchkin, AT-43 or Descent, for example). Members might sign up to play in advance, or you just post a list of times when you will be starting games - first come, first served.
2. Last Man Standing. This relates to 40k, but WFB or other game systems might have something similar.
Basically, you play games of Combat Patrol and the winner stays on to play the next challenger in line. You keep things moving by having timed rounds - getting 30 secs to make all your moves really focuses the mind! It is best if someone is refereeing, but not essential. I play Combat Patrol this way quite often, and it is a great way of getting lots of games in very quickly.
I could bring along some of my less well-used 40k armies (Chaos & Witchhunters) so that members without a 40k army could take part.
3. Hobby events. Jamie's idea for tutorial sessions is a good one. As far as H&S goes, just keep the sharp knives out the hands of the kids. You could include terrain making sessions - "learn to use styrofoam" etc.
4. Bring and Fight Apocalypse. Another good idea. You can set it up so that players can join at any point during the day - eg. if 2000 points of Tau turns up as reinforcements on one side, you allow the other side to revive 2000 points from their own dead pile. It's not competitive, but it would certainly be fun.
A lot of this comes down to members willing to volunteer to set things up or to bring things along (other than themselves and their army). Would I be willing to volunteer (and pay my £3-£5)? Hell, yeah.
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Post by lordsquinty on Feb 8, 2010 16:13:07 GMT
Lets not kid ourselves on.
The failing of Saturdays is lack of bodies through the door, Now, as Jamie rightly pointed out in the other thread, some members have family / work / other commitments on a Saturday and rightly so, place those in higher priority than playing games. It doesn't matter how sparkly the club make Saturday sessions, if only a handfull of members can play on Saturdays, then Saturday sessions are not financially viable without a price hike (which IMHO should apply to the Saturdays - not the whole club, but thats another topic). Perhaps another Ballot of members as to who CANNOT EVER ATTEND Saturdays is needed then the club can work from there?
So, without flogging the dead horse too much, if we CAN get more bodies on a Saturday - here are my thoughts...
IME the best way to get bodies in IS to focus on the 'big 2', not to try and introduce smaller, less familiar games. Thats not to say other games don't have their place, but they will not draw gamers in. Smaller games just will not attract the number of bodies required to finance the Saturdayas well as 40k / WHFB do. I think the only game that can compete in drawing a crowd of enthusiastic gamers (again IME) is Bloodbowl (but not on a regular basis).
However, when coming up with a gaming plan for Saturdays using 40k and WHFB it's worth noting that just running 'big gamesday style games' usually ends in disaster. (one side taking too long for a turn, players arguing over rules, little johnny being a beginner loses the entire flank to rampaging nids etc..) If big games style is decided the way to go, then apocalypse style gaming would be better if pre-arranged between say 4 players in advance.
My best idea for both 40k and WHFB is to use a 'story tree' style good vs evil campaign could be written and played as a campaign day. Eg. 2 teams - good vs evil (obviously), with a set mission for game one. all teams play and then the second and susequent missions are decided by tree campaign by the majority wins of the prvious mission.
For clarification -
10 players on each team. Mission 1 - pitched battle. Mission 2 - Good (Flank Attack), Evil (Ambush) etc etc Winner of last battle is overall winning team.
So both teams play mission 1 , say 14 - 6 wins in favour of evil, Then all players swap opponents and play ambush scenario (as evil had majority wins last time.) The story should have a narrative to give it some extra life as well, and some sort of continuity other than just a set of missions (their should be a reason for each scenario)
Further restrictions could be put in place on army selection - say the narrative is chaos trying to reach an (un)holy location to summon a bloodthirster, then bloodthirsters should obviously be restricted in the army lists.
The story campaign day has the advantages of being something different, self reliant (not relying on visitors from other clubs) and not having the competetitiveness (if thats even a word) of a tournament. The other bonus of the story tree versus a regular campaign is that it could be completed in the course of a day.
And while those larger apocalypse games or campaign days are going on then there could still be room for those that want other types of 'smaller' games like aeronautica or warmachine.
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gcflash
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Post by gcflash on Feb 8, 2010 16:39:48 GMT
the problem with your themed session is $$$$$$ people wont go and spend a small fortune on models for a weekend, remember the hoby aint cheap and not every one can afford to splash out the cash, i dont think even you can offer that good a discount!! If this is aimed at me, I don't really understand what your getting at. Anything I have tried to do to promote Warmachine has been in co-ordination with other players at the club. So not only are all the models being supplied by people who already play, but they are willing to spend their time at the club showing other how to pay.
The other part to the optional themed days was: there is no need to make it one particular game, I even mentioned Paul's vast swathes of games that he rarely gets to play. All I meant was that we have optional organised themed day, whether that be one particular game or many smaller less well known games being shown off (by their proud owners) it does not matter. I would love to have lots of people, like Paul, bring in their random games and be able to just say I like the look of that game and just join in.
As far as your discount comment: a flat 20% off every rrp and with no hidden costs seems very reasonable to me. I have also had special offers in the past (purecheese.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Notices&action=display&thread=1626) in conjunction with said Warmachine themed events. And if people were interested I would be happy to do something similar in the future.
As a side note I don't make any profit from my business and am currently only running it for the benefit of those at the club who play Warmachine. I hope that in the future I might be able to do more with my business.
I am not suggesting any of these events for my personal benefit or gain (other than to get to enjoy my choosen hobby) and I am very sorry if that is the impression you have been given by anything I have said or done.I am very saddened at the "glass is half empty" attitude, I really did hope that people would take this oppertunity open their minds to what could be. I look forward to seeing you all at the AGM. Cheers
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primer
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Post by primer on Feb 8, 2010 23:57:44 GMT
Think your being a bit sensitive there fella.
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primer
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Post by primer on Feb 9, 2010 0:07:08 GMT
I do like the bring and try idea and the modeling idea, the only prob i can see with modeling idea is who would want to give up there much sought after saturday gaming to show people how to do different modeling aspects.maybe this is where you could bring in outside help from gw or another games firm, they could turn up for 3-4 hours to give out the demos/modeling required thus letting members continue with there gaming as well as possible taking part themselves.
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primer
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Post by primer on Feb 9, 2010 0:11:51 GMT
A possible way to get the uni guys in is to find out what they play and put out a 4-8 man challange and invite them down on a saturday or thursday to play. Make it a matter of honour, and make it easy for them to play us as we will play a game of there choice.
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Post by dice0hate0me on Feb 9, 2010 4:31:29 GMT
challanging the uni guys is a great idea--battle of stirling. winner has bragging rights and it will surly interest them to come back for more games.
i can see the point in sticking with the main 2, as thats why most people get into the hobby.
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warsmith
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Post by warsmith on Feb 9, 2010 9:08:25 GMT
With the challenge Stirling Uni, we could also do a sort of Apoclypse style game as well (or what ever WFB version is like). If it was taken, then a sort of time limit per turn would need to be sorted so the game dose not drag/one turn take agies.
Like do a few Sat session with the challenge (with talking right) & then sort of mid way say July as a exsample the Apoclypse style game. But again it come down to people there/number?? before taken into effect of course. That the same time working out somthing so it dose not get dull/stop if it happens.
If number are good could alway have two on the go but have each table effect the game. Also have a few smaller game for other people that will also effect each table because of a object/mission?? Sort of like the Eye of Terror campign (sp) or the Armeggeddon that was shown in the White Dwarf.
We try this that GW Edinbrugh with the Sun kids & everone enjoy there time. Having the recently started on one table, while those near finish there Sun course where on another & both games effected each other because of a mission/object & it was somthing diffrent for them. Like wise I belive we had one of the other store phone us as both store tables would effect each other.
This way no one really left out from the older & younger memeber. It be a good sort of finish up from the challenge with a big game.
As said just arrange the turn time limit so no one find it dull & mean there somthing big happen after the challenge & work out a pts limit, etc.....
Or mix up the challenge thing with single & double style games depend what people want & what wargaming they play?
But as alway this is up to people who want to try it, not to be force. As I know I did not like being force to play Planet strike & not give the chose.
With the model side I'd be happy to show the Plasticard of thing, it should not take to long with thing like extra armour, etc.. if the younger memeber show intrest show them how to do it a bit more safe/no need for a blade/it can be discuss. But yes I like the idea of other like someone from GW willing to give the time to show somthing like green stuff.
Or if some painting side is need to be shown?? It can be quickly done/not effect someone game to much.
Time wise can be discuss when people want to arrange a few min in the day & those gaming can alway check later or earily so it dose not effect any games they have through out the day. Work out somthing that will suit everone.
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gcflash
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Post by gcflash on Feb 9, 2010 9:41:10 GMT
Its hard not to take it personally when people have a go at you and/or are just so down right negative. WARNING: Any posts which are directed as a personal attack or don't directly contribute to an new or existing idea will be deleted. I am glad to see there is atleast some agreement now. Invitational challenges: against other clubs? Not full on tournaments like Storm over Stirling etc. rather grudge matches where we challenge other clubs etc to come and best our gamers! This makes it a matter of honour for our members to show face and lets they play people they would otherwise not meet. The advantage of it being a grudge match is that any game system can be played so you don't have to just play one system all day. Also that not being a tournament people only have to enjoy their games and not worry about what others are doing. But I think so long as these were organised in advance, with one other club coming along each month, it would be great fun. Obviously this requires some logistics and planning. The invitationals need to planned and our members need to feel that there is something at stake if they dont come along. Also it does not have to be a whole club, even just 4 people coming along from another club means that 4 of ours have to turn up for the honour! I really think that it should be that our members take pride in such events. Whether that means we get a couple of small trophies to give out to the top performers (although held at the club perhaps and there name gets added to a plaque - all be it something like the clubs ladder system). Are any of the people who ask the people at the uni's club actually members of their society. I ask because having an outsider come and talk to them is unlikely to entice them along. Also the fact that they get free use of uni rooms outside of uni hours etc is a hurdle. However they cant have access to the abundance of scenery the club has nor the mix of gamers, so these are the things that should be pushed. i do like the sound of playing other clubs, the likes of glasgow and edinburgh etc and as its mostly in the central belt transport shouldnt be to much of drama. we could make it work like a football game we host them for a day then one weekend they host us. its always nice to play differnet opponents. A possible way to get the uni guys in is to find out what they play and put out a 4-8 man challange and invite them down on a saturday or thursday to play. Make it a matter of honour, and make it easy for them to play us as we will play a game of there choice. challanging the uni guys is a great idea--battle of stirling. winner has bragging rights and it will surly interest them to come back for more games. ------------------------------------------------- Edited to ensure no miss understandings.
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Post by Big Dog on Feb 9, 2010 12:04:36 GMT
challanging the uni guys is a great idea--battle of stirling. winner has bragging rights and it will surly interest them to come back for more games. i can see the point in sticking with the main 2, as thats why most people get into the hobby. I'm not so sure they'd be up for it, based on what Mark said when he tried to convince them to come down. The reason they don't is because they don't like 'competitive' gaming and prefer a more role playing style of game where the game is secondary to a story. However it is always worth a try as they can't all have the same opinion and some might want a change now and again.
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Post by dice0hate0me on Feb 9, 2010 12:26:04 GMT
oh yer it totaly depends on numbers but ive seen and talked to a few of them at gw stirling and they seem to be up for a challenge.
if stirling arnt up for it we could go to glasgow and play them, maybe like a home and away one weekend we host them then next sat session they host us.
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PaleKing
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Post by PaleKing on Feb 9, 2010 13:57:37 GMT
It's great to see so many good ideas floating about and it makes me feel like with a bit of effort we can make the Saturday sessions something to look forward to.
Personally I think that there are several ideas on this thread that would work well but I feel that the factor that is most important to them all is pre-planning. If we organise a game/campaign/tournament etc far enough in advance and stay in touch with each other in the runup to the game then we tend to make time for it and to look forward to attending it. Without any pre-planning, with only a vague plan to maybe pop along to the saturday sessio, people understandably end up with other aspects of real life getting in the way at the last minute.
With this in mind it might help to have a few things arranged from a long way out. On a related note, if the saturday involves some sort of open gaming such as a campaign or mini tourney it would need to be promoted in advance through publicity.
One option for a saturday session mentioned on this thread elsewhere is for campaign days. I think that that could be a popular day. It would take a bit of work and planning (and publicity!), but could be kept reasonably simple. For example, a map on the wall showing four key strategic points from a themed battle (WD maps etc). In the room are four tables, each for a specific scenario within the battle. Players can come along and play as many or as few games as they like on whichever table they like and results contribute to the overall result of the campaign. We could give out a few honours/prizes for various accomplishments. It's not something that's going to keep saturdays afloat on its own but it might be something to add to the mix.
On another note, there are loads of games that I would like the opportunity to play that sit on my shelves at home without getting an airing. I'd be happy to put on a game of Descent or various others, or to bring in a pile of boardgames for groups to play. It would be best to get people planned and signed up a couple of weeks beforehand so that numbers and games/rules can be slotted in without it being a waste of time.
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